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  #11  
Old 04-10-2015, 07:16 PM
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Ibrahim Ibn Abbas Al-Khattab
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Default Re: Which sub-species or hybrid ?

That bird is definitely a female. Not sure about the weight.
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  #12  
Old 04-10-2015, 07:42 PM
Lannier Lannier is offline
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Default Re: Which sub-species or hybrid ?

I agree that if this bird is a female, then, it cannot be Peregrinus peregrinus but it could be a hybrid from Peregrinus pelegrinoides, couldn't it as a pure Pelegrinoides female weight is about 1 lb 6 oz.

Obviously, one could argue that such a female hybrid should weight more than a pure Pelegrinoides.

What is sure is that the closed ring of the bird matches the CITES identification number.
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  #13  
Old 08-10-2015, 08:38 AM
Lannier Lannier is offline
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Default Re: Which sub-species or hybrid ?

A bit of information from the wife's breeder: the bird may be peregrinus x brookei or vice versa. Her husband is still checking.
He'll try to find also what the flying weights was of the other offsprings and the parents.


I searched Internet and could get the following information on the weight of pure Brookei but information varies a lot, either 500-1000 gr (1lb 1 oz- 2 lb 3 oz) or 650-800 gr (1lb 7 oz- 1 lb 13 oz). And it seems that these weight ranges refer to wild birds, not falconry ones).
==> What are flying weights of pure Brookei ?
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  #14  
Old 08-10-2015, 09:21 AM
Andy Heath Andy Heath is offline
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Default Re: Which sub-species or hybrid ?

Lannier,

It is still far too small for a female Brookei.

Would you mind posting a full frontal photo of the bird, preferably with the head to one side and making sure that the feet and ring are well in view.

Thanks,

Andy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Heath View Post
Lannier,

It is still far too small for a female Brookei.

Would you mind posting a full frontal photo of the bird, preferably with the head to one side and making sure that the feet and ring are well in view.

Thanks,

Andy
Apologies, I've just seen the full frontal that you have already posted. I'm none the wiser, mysterious.
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  #15  
Old 08-10-2015, 02:43 PM
Igumann Igumann is offline
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Default Re: Which sub-species or hybrid ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lannier View Post
A bit of information from the wife's breeder: the bird may be peregrinus x brookei or vice versa. Her husband is still checking.
He'll try to find also what the flying weights was of the other offsprings and the parents.


I searched Internet and could get the following information on the weight of pure Brookei but information varies a lot, either 500-1000 gr (1lb 1 oz- 2 lb 3 oz) or 650-800 gr (1lb 7 oz- 1 lb 13 oz). And it seems that these weight ranges refer to wild birds, not falconry ones).
==> What are flying weights of pure Brookei ?
My dear friend.Combination of f.peregrinus peregrinusx f.peregrinus brookay never will giwe young females with weight 650gr.Again-check sex of THIS bird ,BECAUSE: is eassy to put ring of one dead bird to another ofspring .....and sell ,,thiss ofspring'later like one from the papir ...
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2015, 10:40 AM
Lannier Lannier is offline
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Default Re: Which sub-species or hybrid ?

For a while, I had the same thought like you, Igumann.

Apart from the breeder, it sounds that there were at least 2 other owners. The last one did not mention any doubt about this bird, just mentioning it is certain that the bird is hybrid.
What I do not understand is why the exact information was lost.

While searching this forum, I can across information that the bird's breeder (in Germany) bred Red Napped Shaheen, at least in 2008 year.

Who knows, maybe the bird is RNS hybrid.

While awaiting the breeder's final confirmation, I'm putting the weight of the bird up to see when she stops being responsive.

Since a week, I give her 80-85 grams of food (beef-quail-mice) daily and her weight is increasing (with 70 grams, her weight remains steady).

Today, her weight is 692 grams (1lb 8,5 oz), and still doing well on the lure. Still on a 7-yard creance. I really need to lure her on a 20-30 yard creance to see if her behaviour changes at this weight.

Considering that the bird is 12-year old and probably never flown free, there's no reason for me to rush or be impatient.
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2015, 09:23 PM
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SugezWolf SugezWolf is offline
Gerry Plant
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Default Re: Which sub-species or hybrid ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lannier View Post
For a while, I had the same thought like you, Igumann.

Apart from the breeder, it sounds that there were at least 2 other owners. The last one did not mention any doubt about this bird, just mentioning it is certain that the bird is hybrid.
What I do not understand is why the exact information was lost.

While searching this forum, I can across information that the bird's breeder (in Germany) bred Red Napped Shaheen, at least in 2008 year.

Who knows, maybe the bird is RNS hybrid.

While awaiting the breeder's final confirmation, I'm putting the weight of the bird up to see when she stops being responsive.

Since a week, I give her 80-85 grams of food (beef-quail-mice) daily and her weight is increasing (with 70 grams, her weight remains steady).

Today, her weight is 692 grams (1lb 8,5 oz), and still doing well on the lure. Still on a 7-yard creance. I really need to lure her on a 20-30 yard creance to see if her behaviour changes at this weight.

Considering that the bird is 12-year old and probably never flown free, there's no reason for me to rush or be impatient.
Hi Lannier - I believe your hawk to be a Brookei. I have flown two falcons and know of at least 4 more flown by friends that have flown at weights from 23-26oz.

Gerry x
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  #18  
Old 10-10-2015, 07:31 PM
Lannier Lannier is offline
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Default Re: Which sub-species or hybrid ?

I'm in contact with the breeder in Germany and despite the fact that he cannot find record on the bird, he's pretty sure the bird is Brookei (certainly not hybrid with Barbary because he did not bred any in 2003 and because, as per him, the bird does not look like a hybrid Barbary, (I sent to him picture of my bird).

Furthermore, I came across information on internet from a breeder in Spain (pls have a look at his add, 2 years' old)

http://www.falconers.eu/raptors/larg...-ambos-98.html

where he mentioned that on average the flying weight of a female pure Brookei can range from 600-700 grams (21,4 oz-25 oz). The breeder in Spain had on sale a female pure Brookei and her flying weight was 650 grams (23,2 oz).

So, if we accept that the breeder in Spain knows his business, it is not at all irealistic to say that my bird is Brookei, isn't it ?
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  #19  
Old 13-10-2015, 07:26 PM
Lannier Lannier is offline
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Default Re: Which sub-species or hybrid ?

As per the breeder, no record found but he's pretty sure that the bird is a pure Brookei.

Today, her weight was 25,7 oz, and still doing well on the creance.

Will come back to this post to confirm her flying weight when she has flown free for at least 1 week.

Thanks all for your comments.
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  #20  
Old 05-11-2015, 05:14 PM
Lannier Lannier is offline
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Default Re: Which sub-species or hybrid ?

Flying free at 704 grams (= 1 lb 8.9 oz or 25.1 oz).
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