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  #21  
Old 05-06-2012, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Identify the bird please!

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Originally Posted by Falcon911 View Post
Hi Pete,

I have a female Falcon which on paper is a Peregrine/Barbary hybrid and I have my suspicions it is a pure Barbary. Would I be able to tell from the flags?

Thanks
Regards
Andy
Combined with other characteristics such as size, perhaps wing design. It can get pretty tough in known hybrids between peregrinus and pelegrinoides because they are likey related species to begin with. My thing is, if they fly with a style you can appreciate, who cares what they are right? If your bird was a true hybrid, it probably should be in a weight that exceeds any known Barbary female, but perhaps under the weight of a typical female peregrinus, but not always. I know a guy that made some Barb X Anatum Peregrine hybrids, and the female of those progeny actually flew at several ounces heavier than her mother (32 oz as opposed to 28 oz). Some of that can happen because the weight distribution for Barbaries is different with more pectoral mass on a deeper keel. So in the hybrid, it structurally got the Barbary build from the father, but the coloration and plumage pattern more from the mother.

Last edited by Pete J.; 05-06-2012 at 04:49 AM. Reason: typos fixed
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  #22  
Old 05-06-2012, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: Identify the bird please!

Here's a Barbary Anatum. Just for a view. http://
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  #23  
Old 06-06-2012, 03:12 AM
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Question Re: Identify the bird please!

. So in the hybrid, it structurally got the Barbary build from the father, but the coloration and plumage pattern more from the mother.[/QUOTE]
Hi pete,
Are you sure?
Is it PROVED rule?
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  #24  
Old 06-06-2012, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: Identify the bird please!

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven II View Post
. So in the hybrid, it structurally got the Barbary build from the father, but the coloration and plumage pattern more from the mother.
hi pete,
are you sure?
is it PROVED rule? [/QUOTE]
It tends to hold up pretty well. Not every time, but most of the time. For instance, most Peregrine X Merlin hybrids are made with a Merlin for the mother. Now, if you look at just about any of those hybrids, they tend to favor the Merlin in overall plumage color and pattern, but, behaviorally they want to fly more like their father. I can only recall seeing one Merlin hybrid that was made with a Peregrine that the progeny actually looked more like a Peregrine...and it was made with the Peregrine being the mother in that one case.
On the other hand, looking at Gyr X Peregrines for instance. Even though the mother is generally the Peregrine in most of those hybrids, the progeny still tend to favor the Gyr side somewhat in coloration and pattern of their plumage, which is opposite to what we were talking about in the above situation. In the case of the Gyr X Peregrines though, I think this happens because there is a sort of 'default' or general falcon plumage that they all have, but modifications have occurred at the species level to make that plumage look more distinctive to them rather than some other falcon species. It sometimes shows its presence in odd ways, such as with some Peregrine X Prairie hybrids which had a large, reddish spot on the center of their crown, very reminiscent of the American Kestrel. Now, where did that modification come from when clearly both Peregrine and Prairie falcons do not exhibit this spot on their head in any of their plumages?
So, these plumage modification issues are complicated. But simple to say, when you read detailed ornithological descriptions of the Peregrine and the Barbary/Red-naped Shaheen, they tend to mention the difference in the pattern on the flags of the adults...one having barring, the other having 'chevrons' or arrowheads.
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  #25  
Old 09-06-2012, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Identify the bird please!

Thank you for your valuable information.
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  #26  
Old 11-06-2012, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: Identify the bird please!

Here is another bird
Unfortunately dead because his/her owner was too greedy.
Identify the bird please
Attached Images
File Type: jpg photo.jpg (37.5 KB, 314 views)
File Type: jpg photo...jpg (47.0 KB, 313 views)
File Type: jpg photo ..jpg (37.6 KB, 314 views)
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  #27  
Old 12-06-2012, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: Identify the bird please!

Pretty tough on that one. What did it weigh? Where was it trapped and time of year? Immature plumages are very tough on some of those birds. I would guess a Barbary but, without knowing the weight and sex and acquired location it would only be a guess. Looks a little dark to be an RNS is why I went with Barbary. But it could easily be a brookeii as well.
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  #28  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Identify the bird please!

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Originally Posted by Pete J. View Post
Pretty tough on that one. What did it weigh? Where was it trapped and time of year? Immature plumages are very tough on some of those birds. I would guess a Barbary but, without knowing the weight and sex and acquired location it would only be a guess. Looks a little dark to be an RNS is why I went with Barbary. But it could easily be a brookeii as well.
thank you pete
I have the same idea
I dont know about the weight
It would be about 650 grams
Female
Any comment?
Dont just read
Common
Discuss
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2012, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Identify the bird please!

650 would be fairly typical weight for a female Barbary and even some smallish female RNS. I would still go with a female Barbary though as it doesn't seem quite pale enough for an RNS. Could be an intergrade of course, as their populations meet in about that area of the mideast. But again, it could be something like a tiercel calidus depending on where and when it was trapped.
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  #30  
Old 13-06-2012, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Identify the bird please!

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Originally Posted by Pete J. View Post
650 would be fairly typical weight for a female Barbary and even some smallish female RNS. I would still go with a female Barbary though as it doesn't seem quite pale enough for an RNS. Could be an intergrade of course, as their populations meet in about that area of the mideast. But again, it could be something like a tiercel calidus depending on where and when it was trapped.
dear pete
Is your reply refer to first bird or second one?
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