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  #11  
Old 13-04-2012, 11:52 AM
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Pete J. Pete J. is offline
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

Just so that you know the history of this. This was basically a 'staged' altercation. The bird was a trained one. He had previously shown interest in ducks but could not seem to catch them, but ended up taking a shot at a goose and found it slower and could make an attack...effective or not. The falconer was friends with a 'documentary' wildlife film maker known as Marty Stouffer who had a show called "Wild America" in which he often employed (as many wildlife film makers do) a falconer to fly his bird to simulate some wild behavior in way that will be more visual and dramatic. That was the case with this event, they took the jesses off of the trained bird and then free flew it on a group of waterfowl with at least one goose and then just let it unfold. I agree that to sit there and watch your bird get beat up like this is really quite negligent, regardless if you were getting 'the footage' or not. And while we feel bad about it particularly because its a gerkin and a white one at that, the owner is a veterinarian with plenty of money and connections, so for him it was not as big a thing as it might be for one of us. No excuse of course, gyr or not, it is useful only from the stand point that it does show how aggressive falcons can be when they are stimulated enough. One minute of that footage could have shown that quite clearly in my view, the rest was excessive and akin to the Romans and the gladiators.
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  #12  
Old 13-04-2012, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

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Originally Posted by Bashaaar View Post
i did see that video couple years ago , wild falcon still very rare not easy to compete them with captive bred. i m sure the captive one will run away from first attack from the goose.
It is a captive-bred. You can see a breeder ring on the right leg if you look closely near the end of the video.
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  #13  
Old 13-04-2012, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

Have a look at this one, classical ringing flight at herons
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  #14  
Old 13-04-2012, 12:48 PM
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

While I can empathise with some of the comments, about the welfare of the Bird, I can't help but be impressed with the Bird. I am certainly not sure I could allow it to happen, even if it was a 'test' of some kind. I don't think the Bird was starving or too keen though, just very aggressive and sure of itself on hunting weight. We are told that our Birds have to be 'conditioned' to become good hunting Birds. This means mentally and physically, through a process of manning, socialising, Lure work, Kiting, free flying and obviously kills under the Belt. If the Bird was as keen as some have said would it feel capable to attempt to tackle something so big? Would it have the strength and fortitude to see it through to a kill? Would it even bother to leave the Rock and attempt to take the Ducks prior to the Goose and then tackle it, if it was literally starved down to take the Goose? I have seen this clip before, Months ago and remember all the Kneejerk reactions and comments from back then, all similar to the ones posted here. Like I said a very impressive Bird. This is a little bit of a moral dilemma like, Taking those Desert Antelopes with Falcons or Foxes and Roe with Eagles.
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  #15  
Old 13-04-2012, 01:30 PM
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Kestrel UA Kestrel UA is offline
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

In my oppinion this video is showing pretty violent and brave (starving?) but very unwise falcon if we may say so. These type of birds die first in the wild. This is not the way falcon should deal with a big prey. The falcon species are not built for long ground fight with prey 2-3 times bigger than themselves. These is the domain of accipiters and eagles, who have strong feet, large tough claws and taloons. The falcon should strike the prey again and again from the air utill it is done. Otherwise it is dangerous for the falcon itself while in the wild even a small injury to the wing or feet = death.
You might not agree with me, but this is my oppinion. There was some video here in one of the topics about wild gyrs and F mexicanus (if I'm not mistaken) taking some Ducks and the type of wild relatively not big falcon (preary F) attack for a relatively big prey says for itself.

everything said is pure IMHO I am not expecting to be the best expert here.

RGDs
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  #16  
Old 13-04-2012, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

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Originally Posted by CanadaManada View Post
It is a captive-bred. You can see a breeder ring on the right leg if you look closely near the end of the video.
Who was the breeder then ?
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  #17  
Old 13-04-2012, 03:04 PM
Judd Casper Judd Casper is offline
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete J. View Post
Just so that you know the history of this. This was basically a 'staged' altercation. The bird was a trained one. He had previously shown interest in ducks but could not seem to catch them, but ended up taking a shot at a goose and found it slower and could make an attack...effective or not. The falconer was friends with a 'documentary' wildlife film maker known as Marty Stouffer who had a show called "Wild America" in which he often employed (as many wildlife film makers do) a falconer to fly his bird to simulate some wild behavior in way that will be more visual and dramatic. That was the case with this event, they took the jesses off of the trained bird and then free flew it on a group of waterfowl with at least one goose and then just let it unfold. I agree that to sit there and watch your bird get beat up like this is really quite negligent, regardless if you were getting 'the footage' or not. And while we feel bad about it particularly because its a gerkin and a white one at that, the owner is a veterinarian with plenty of money and connections, so for him it was not as big a thing as it might be for one of us. No excuse of course, gyr or not, it is useful only from the stand point that it does show how aggressive falcons can be when they are stimulated enough. One minute of that footage could have shown that quite clearly in my view, the rest was excessive and akin to the Romans and the gladiators.
Pete they should of just shown the stop and head shot, then the Gyr feeding up on the goose and left the rest out.Ive nothing against someone trying to catch geese but give the falcon a break and help her out, this film does absolutely nothing for us falconers on a PR scale.Marks out of ten for the producers of this film zero.



ATB
Sam
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  #18  
Old 13-04-2012, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

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Originally Posted by Bashaaar View Post
who was the breeder then ?
Dude, I said you can see a ring... I didn't say you could read it.
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  #19  
Old 13-04-2012, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

So this is a falconry bird used to film what is made to look 'natural'. If this was a natural event then fine, but as it is staged I find the level of cruelty to both the falcon and the goose extraordinary. As a falconer if your hawk takes large quarry it is your duty to both your hawk and the quarry to make in quick and bring it to a conclusion swiftly. To sit back and let both combatants fight it out like that, the falcon risking serious injury (did you see some of the hits it took!) and the goose enduring a long and protacted terrifying end purely for the benefit of filming is unethical (which is the polite way of saying it!).

In the wild a young eyass knowing no better and sharp set due to pressures of having to fend for itself for the first time might well take on quarry that it wouldn't otherwise. However, many such encounters will lead to the death of the falcon either directly or protractedly due to suffering injury diminishing future hunting ability. To re-create this using a captive falcon and putting wild quarry through that for the sake of the camera man's 'convenience' (far easier to 'rig' dramatic natural events than to actually get out there and film it in the wild) is just wrong.
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  #20  
Old 13-04-2012, 03:38 PM
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Pertie Pertie is offline
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete J. View Post
............. No excuse of course, gyr or not, it is useful only from the stand point that it does show how aggressive falcons can be when they are stimulated enough. One minute of that footage could have shown that quite clearly in my view, the rest was excessive and akin to the Romans and the gladiators.
What it shows is how strong is the instinct to survive. That falcon was starving and was making a last desperate attempt to obtain food to survive, nothing else. It was very acute hunger and not stimulation that caused the falcon to behave as it did. If the individual responsible was a vet., then his behaviour was even more reprehensible and he should be censored by whatever regulatory association he belongs to.
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