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  #21  
Old 13-04-2012, 03:59 PM
Nebli Nebli is offline
Juan De Marcken
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

I do agree with you i the attitude of the falconer but not on the starving point you made , a starving hawk will be to weak to ever be able to endure it
it will show a lack of physical condition that will render it impossible.
It wasn't either as fat as if he was flying pheasants.
I can only say that if the hawk was impressive the falconer was not to say the least.
atb
juan
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  #22  
Old 13-04-2012, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

Actually, having flown falcons of many species for decades from smallest to nearly largest (gyr hybrids but not pure gyr yet), I would not assume for a minute that this bird was in low condition. It doesn't look in low condition to me at all. Often birds that try to take large prey and are successful at it are actually quite strong and healthy and they attempt such quarry because they think they can subdue it. If they think they cannot then they can easily just let go and leave it alone.
I guess the fact that this bird did this was because A.) it was young still and naive about its capabilities, B.) according to the explanation given by the owner which is not part of this footage, the bird had attempted and perhaps was successful previously on a goose and was merely giving it a go again. I think that often some of the most successful game hawk (falcons included) are those that are mentally confident in their capabilities and almost arrogant about fulfilling their needs and desires. In some ways we are often responsible for such an outcome with our birds because we come to their aid and help them dispatch the prey quickly, when, in the wild on that same quarry they might have gotten beaten up badly and learned not to mess with such large and dangerous quarry.
Take some of the large hares for instance that are often taken by Goshawks or Harris' Hawks, when in reality they might only be taken regularly by eagles. We've all seen footage of them being dragged and kicked and crushed and dragged some more by some of these brutes, yet, we still expose them to such a quarry don't we?
So yes, I think this was primarily deplorable because of the fact that they did not intercede to help either the predator or the prey when perhaps they should have...or at least stopped filming after the first strike down as was suggested. On some level I think that we are somewhat perversely preoccupied with predators and what and how they do things, and partly I think that for us as omnivorous animals, we feel that somehow we might learn something from the tactics of watching skilled instinctive carnivores do their thing. Wouldn't you agree? I mean, isn't that at the core of falconry itself...we're watching predators do what they do at regular and close range?
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  #23  
Old 13-04-2012, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobWright View Post
While I can empathise with some of the comments, about the welfare of the Bird, I can't help but be impressed with the Bird. I am certainly not sure I could allow it to happen, even if it was a 'test' of some kind. I don't think the Bird was starving or too keen though, just very aggressive and sure of itself on hunting weight. We are told that our Birds have to be 'conditioned' to become good hunting Birds. This means mentally and physically, through a process of manning, socialising, Lure work, Kiting, free flying and obviously kills under the Belt. If the Bird was as keen as some have said would it feel capable to attempt to tackle something so big? Would it have the strength and fortitude to see it through to a kill? Would it even bother to leave the Rock and attempt to take the Ducks prior to the Goose and then tackle it, if it was literally starved down to take the Goose? I have seen this clip before, Months ago and remember all the Kneejerk reactions and comments from back then, all similar to the ones posted here. Like I said a very impressive Bird. This is a little bit of a moral dilemma like, Taking those Desert Antelopes with Falcons or Foxes and Roe with Eagles.

Couldnt agree with you more.

I believe the reason the gyr doesnt kill it straight away is down to inexperience. The bird must be left as shown at this stage so it learns how to kill. I bet its next goose didnt last as long. Ive seen houbara been taken by young early season falcons and the fights on the ground would last just aslong even leading to broken feathers however as the bird was allowed to take its time it learned how to kill them and within a few weeks and a few houbara later, would kill within 30 secs of taking the houbara.
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  #24  
Old 13-04-2012, 06:14 PM
Brian Sullivan Brian Sullivan is offline
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

It is a large breeder in the US and he markets this Video all over the Middle East. You will see it playing in the shops over there. To me as a Falconer and a breeder it is appalling and a real disgrace and to see this being used to market his Falcons.

There has been times when my Falcons have caught and killed Geese, but it was nothing more then a novelty and completely unintentional. Too hype it up and just sit there and watch as a fight of this nature takes place is pretty lame.
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  #25  
Old 13-04-2012, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sullivan View Post
It is a large breeder in the US and he markets this Video all over the Middle East. You will see it playing in the shops over there. To me as a Falconer and a breeder it is appalling and a real disgrace and to see this being used to market his Falcons.

There has been times when my Falcons have caught and killed Geese, but it was nothing more then a novelty and completely unintentional. Too hype it up and just sit there and watch as a fight of this nature takes place is pretty lame.
To set the record straight, the breeder of this bird is NOT the falconer that owned and flew the jerkin. Yes, he did produce it, but he had absolutely no hand in it's training, how it was handled or anything else about it once it left his facility, and you're way out of line implying that.
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  #26  
Old 13-04-2012, 09:10 PM
Brian Sullivan Brian Sullivan is offline
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

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Originally Posted by Falcon56 View Post
To set the record straight, the breeder of this bird is NOT the falconer that owned and flew the jerkin. Yes, he did produce it, but he had absolutely no hand in it's training, how it was handled or anything else about it once it left his facility, and you're way out of line implying that.
That is strange the video being shown over in the Middle East had the breeders name/farm all over it and as always your lack any facts, nothing new from you....

How somebody else trained it or otherwise is a mute point. No matter who the Falconer is, it does not really matter, as they are for sure a hack, as to sit back, film, watch, etc. is nothing short of an abomination.

You could take just about any Falcon and make it want to attack Elephants with the right conditioning, but what is the purpose? Unless you are really using a large female Gyrfalcon, Goshawk, or Eagle, it is always very risky business killing Geese and there has been many a Falcon killed and thrashed by them. I have a good friend that caught and killed many with his imprint female Gyr x Peregrine with the intent of hunting them, but on her last flight on them she took a terrible beating on the ground and now refuses them even though he was pursuing the flight by ATV and could get to the scene quickly.
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  #27  
Old 13-04-2012, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sullivan View Post
It is a large breeder in the US and he markets this Video all over the Middle East. You will see it playing in the shops over there. To me as a Falconer and a breeder it is appalling and a real disgrace and to see this being used to market his Falcons.

There has been times when my Falcons have caught and killed Geese, but it was nothing more then a novelty and completely unintentional. Too hype it up and just sit there and watch as a fight of this nature takes place is pretty lame.
Your attitude is correct. The so called falconer and the breeder have no respect for their falcons, the quarry or themselves and neither, it would appear does Falcon56.
The breeder may have relinquished control of what happened to the falcon when he sold it, but it is assinine to suggest he has no control as to whether he uses or does not use the video to enhance his sales.
To the gentleman who contributed the view that the falcon's next goose "would not last as long", I suggest the possibility of another attempt at a goose would be remote.
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  #28  
Old 13-04-2012, 09:49 PM
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Ray Gilbertson
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

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Originally Posted by Pertie View Post
Your attitude is correct. The so called falconer and the breeder have no respect for their falcons, the quarry or themselves and neither, it would appear does Falcon56.
The breeder may have relinquished control of what happened to the falcon when he sold it, but it is assinine to suggest he has no control as to whether he uses or does not use the video to enhance his sales.
To the gentleman who contributed the view that the falcon's next goose "would not last as long", I suggest the possibility of another attempt at a goose would be remote.
Brian and Pertie,
Brian, just admit you were wrong for accusing the breeder here. Simple, instead you turn it around to question my integrity. My respect for quarry or falcons is beyond question, don't make assumptions about something you have no idea about. I know for a fact who trained and flew the bird, it wasn't the breeder, and the breeder wasn't present when the video was being filmed. You are all casting aspersions on some ones reputation and it's wrong. I never have condoned what was done with this bird regarding geese, and commented as such in a room full of falconers the first time I saw this video 5 or 6 years ago.
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  #29  
Old 13-04-2012, 10:23 PM
Brian Sullivan Brian Sullivan is offline
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon56 View Post
Brian and Pertie,
Brian, just admit you were wrong for accusing the breeder here. Simple, instead you turn it around to question my integrity. My respect for quarry or falcons is beyond question, don't make assumptions about something you have no idea about. I know for a fact who trained and flew the bird, it wasn't the breeder, and the breeder wasn't present when the video was being filmed. You are all casting aspersions on some ones reputation and it's wrong. I never have condoned what was done with this bird regarding geese, and commented as such in a room full of falconers the first time I saw this video 5 or 6 years ago.
Whatever, you guys that were given so many Falcons from the P-fund just seem to live in some kind of "Fantasy World". As far as your integrity or character, your good at showing us how really ignorant you are about many things, that you don't seem to have a clue about.

Try doing a little fact searching before "setting the record straight" for all of us!

It does not matter who bred the bird or who was doing what they did. It is about marketing such an event and the Falconer flying this bird has no respect for Falcons-period. Time after time you bring nothing to the table for anyone, just more rubbish.
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  #30  
Old 13-04-2012, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Gyrfalcons facts & images

Stu would it not be the case that how the quarry is taken/ hit determines the outcome?
A falcon smashing the brains out of a goose with a hit from a stoop won’t fight as much as a glancing blow the goose regaining its wits’ and wanting to stay alive? Alf.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Shammal View Post
Couldnt agree with you more.

I believe the reason the gyr doesnt kill it straight away is down to inexperience. The bird must be left as shown at this stage so it learns how to kill. I bet its next goose didnt last as long. Ive seen houbara been taken by young early season falcons and the fights on the ground would last just aslong even leading to broken feathers however as the bird was allowed to take its time it learned how to kill them and within a few weeks and a few houbara later, would kill within 30 secs of taking the houbara.
Stu
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